And certainly, there has been lots of ripping off from music in graphic, it can be annoying to constantly see the same rapper or album referenced.
Nick: For us, with our graphics, we really try hard not to just rip things off. I’m sure there will be a point where you will call me and say, you told me you don’t rip things off and you’ve done x,y and z. For the most part, we try and put a bit of thought in our stuff. The name of the blog is “A Story to Tell,” and we try and have a story to tell through everything we do.
We’ve done a graphic for fall, which you won’t see for awhile, buts its basically a beautiful illustration of skull. The skull, when you look closely, is made up of instruments. The idea came as we were talking about music and the idea that nobody uses instruments anymore. So our lead designer, John, says I’ve got an idea to do a design based on the death of instruments. We kind of banged heads and thought how about a skull. Well, skulls have been done to death. You need to look quite closely it is like a cross between a skull and C-3PO. The eyes are pieces of vinyl, the mouth a hammond organ. It’s a very nice illustration. We just try and tell and story and have good ideas. I think, creatively, good ideas are the hardest part of all of this. Getting everything made and marketing it and selling it is obviously a huge job, but coming up with good ideas is hard as hell.
Do you have a typical process? Do you all come together? Or is it really an organic development?
Nick: The one thing that I’ve always encouraged everyone that works with us is that you never know when you might have a good idea. I just say, look if you come up with anything, however silly, just write it down. Then, obviously, we need a bit of structure. When we’re working on a collection it really evolves out of what’s going on at the time. Something we develop over four to seven weeks. Someone might discover a bit of denim that is more fitted than what they normally wear and think, shit these feel great. And, we might think about working on a cut. We have meetings and its a very open process. Everyone brings ideas to the table. It is quite a serious process, which people are surprised by. Good ideas are the backbone of this company. It requires a lot of thought. It is very easy to be simple with stuff and just stick a logo on a polo shirt. We’re just going to do some selvedge denim. Let’s do a puffa jacket, Kanye was wearing one last week. That’s not what this is about. For us, it’s about leading and pushing forward and hoping people are going to be copying you.
It seems as there are attempts to reach a wide audience. In terms of, there are different cuts in the collection. You’ve got the graphic tees and then something like the selvedge shirt, which is a bit more mature.
Nick: For us, honestly, we worked long and hard developing a visual identity for the brand, which is obviously the heart logo. It’s something, people love the logo. We have kids who are 15 and skate, they just want a loose tee with the logo. We have 35 year old lawyers, who don’t want a tee shirt with a massive logo, but would love it on a shirt. Then again, it comes back to the people in the company. We range in age, at the moment from 21 to 35. All of us have a similar style, a bit of hip-hop, rockabilly, London and New York. We try to make stuff we like, and that makes sense. We are not going to do something that doesn’t make sense to us, but we do have a broad audience in terms of age. The youngsters want big logos, and obviously will mature into the smaller logo stuff. We just want to appeal to all those people. Again, what nobody wants to talk about, this is business. I’d love it if I didn’t need to make money and just make twenty of one piece and forty of another, and not worry about the cost. However, it is about building a great business and for us that’s about being consistent and make amazing product. Simple as that.
I became aware of the company when the first shirts dropped, and it has been somewhat remarkable to watch it, and other companies of like age, grow. There is obviously a very quick learning curve as far as building a product goes, and I’d like to know how those steps are made.
Nick: The very quick answer is that it is about good people. I think it sounds corny, its about good people and treating people with respect. Damien, my business partner, comes from a digital graphics background. He is the quieter of the two of us, but he was the creative director of Nike digital in Europe. He worked on and developed the early Nike ID site in 1999. I think for us, we have a bit of knowledge, but by no means do we know everything. So, we knew that as we developed the brand we just needed good people to work with us and share the vision. Fortunately we found, through introductions and a bit of luck, people that wanted to work with us and help us. We have a great team. You know, making denim without a great team is not easy and it will end up costing you a fortune. We were lucky and trying to treat everyone the right way and that allowed us to have a good team. Which is why you’ll never hear me say, I designed this and that. It’s all about we and having the right people around. Same goes for all elements.
I think that comes out in the branding of the company, with the website and everything.
Nick: Without people, you are completely screwed. The one good thing, if your passionate about something you learn quickly. A year and a half ago I couldn’t tell you anything about Japanese denim, selvedge, this ounce or that ounce, and this wash. Nothing. But, I’m hungary to learn. I’m constantly striving to do everything as best as possible. I have huge respect for people that operate in that way. People in this business that are huge inspirations to me, who I don’t necessarily know. People like James of Supreme, he just strives to do everything the best possible way, and I really respect that. The same with Sarah at Colette. Everything she does is about doing things the best. That attitude is commendable and to do it you need great people around you.
Quickly about selvedge. Obviously from where I am, watching a number of companies grow and develop, was there any pressure from the trend perspective to go that route?
Nick: It wasn’t about that so much for us. We only embarked on our denim program in September of last year. For Fall ‘07. I don’t really talk about seasons that often, I think it’s weird with the internet everyone talks about seasons. I didn’t know anything about seasons when I started in this business. If I needed a new shirt, I’ll go down to Hideout or Bond or Selfridges and buy one. It’s weird that people are on about seasons, because I’m not sure it means anything to the consumer, perhaps it does now.
So, we started our denim program in September last year. We always wanted to be, I hate using this world, premium, but without being overly expensive. As someone whose worn denim for quite a while, and increasingly into denim, I always loved Japanese denim. I used to have a buddy that sent me Evisu denim with blank back pockets. The designs were a bit much, but I loved the fit and feel. It was more a decision based on personal preference. We wanted to make great denim, we loved selvedge, we’ve had the privilege of spending time in Japan and wearing Japanese denim for a long time, and this is the look and feel we want for the brand. Selvedge has become cool on a very underground level. When you go and talk to people on a big level, nobody has a clue what you’re talking about. We just felt its best for 12 Bar and what the brand represents, to simply make great denim.
Being quite interested in denim myself, it’s always interesting to hear the perspective of people who are making it or having it sourced.
Nick: It’s funny to me. I know loads of people and I never understood it until I become obsessed. They grew up obsessed with star wars, ok. Then they were obsessed with sneakers. Then toys. And, then denim. I never understood how you got to denim from everything else, but it is something that if you’ve got an obsessive nature, its something you can go bananas about.
I just made a bit of a pilgrimage of sorts to Self Edge. Having never been to Japan, it was nice to just touch and feel a lot of stuff at once. I never felt so nerdy. It’s almost akin to spending days at a time in Deal Real Records or Fat Beats in the late 90s.
Nick: Exactly. Getting back to your question, it’s all about doing stuff that’s the right fit for the brand. We’ve had offers of doing a varsity jacket, and honestly nobody in this company has ever worn a varsity jacket. Perhaps, at some point it would make sense to do one, but we love parkas and M-65s. We love windbreakers. That’s what were going to do. It makes sense to us.
I like that your M-65 if corduroy. It’s really different from the majority, you’ve got an individual stamp to yours.
Nick: What’s funny is, I used to work at Maharishi. There are a few things people are surprised to hear I don’t like. One is, I’ve never been into comics. Which people find weird, I don’t know why. The other is that I’ve never been a record collector. I have huge amounts of music and I do have a fair few records, but its just something I could never afford. I used to be, its almost embarrassing to talk about, a ridiculous Nike collector. It is not something I publicize too much, but yeah I have a ridiculous collection. The other thing is, I’ve never been into camo. At Maharishi that was kind of funny. I’m not into the military, war and guns. I know camo came from nature and all that, I worked on the book, which was fascinating. But, I’ve never been into camo. I loved the M-65 jacket and the way it fit and hugged the body, and the way fashion designers adapted it from the military. Damien has never worn camo, and we didn’t want to do it. Our flavor is a pair of chippie chinos and some black Jordan's, and what coat will go that. It just kind of made sense. We’ve done two new ones for Holiday. One is mohair, which is beautiful and the other is a pinstripe, almost like the type of fabric you’d see on a Paul Smith suit.
Mohair really infuses a bit of the casual look that has alluded some of the current iteration of streetwear.
Nick: Exactly. It’s just about making things that make sense to us. I read an interesting article about Ralph Lauren recently in Vanity Fair. When he was building his business in the 70s, the whole studio 54 was huge, and Pierre Cardan and Ives St. Laurent were huge. Holstein. People were looking at him and thinking, you’re really boring. But, Ralph was like, I’m anti-fashion, I just want to make stuff I can wear everyday. To a dinner party or to a club. Obviously his thing was very WASPY, Yuppie, New England, Hamptons. For us I view it in a similar way. I want to make stuff that will look great now, that would have looked great 5 years ago and will look great in 20 years time. In a way that is almost the antithesis of fashion. It’s a constant challenge.
WORDS: Nick Schonberg
